thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> welcome to the beat, i'm ari melber. the new york subway hunt and that is coming up this hour. while we begin right now with progress in adifferent investigation. the one into the insurrection. now if you follow the developments into the probe, of that violent effort to overthrow democracy, you've heard plenty about clashes over the resistant and defiant witnesses and holing them accountable because both parties engage with lawful subpoenas and probes even when

they have major objections. it is a feature of this trump era that several of these former officials and others are just openly defying the probe leading to contempt of congress citation and also one criminal indictment for steve bannon. but here is the thing. those stories draw attention because they're unusual. not only across history but unusual inside of this probe. and that is something that i want to you remember as we turn to a big development tonight. because the house committee continues to sit most of these witnesses down, including recently trump's own family members an grill them and get evidence and fact check them and compare notes. that process is playing out in the vast majority of the time it is working. today something very important happened. the lawyers who serve at the top of trump's white house went through the same process as jared and ivanka and so many others. two of them facing a grilling by the january 6 committee, trump's white house council pat cipollone saw the signs of extreme and possibly unconstitutional moves and tried

to stop some of them. you may recall bill barr shut down trump's last ditch voter fraud claims as baseless, as basically lies. cipollony had to push back on a plot to over ruhle or outmaneuver barr bay naming a new special prescription, back lies about voter fraud and that might fit into all of the january 6 shenanigans. there is evidence he threatened to resign, a pattern that his predecessor used to try to thwart other illegal plans by donald trump and if that wins a bill it is because bob mueller uncovered that feature during his investigation. that was the prior white house council, don mcgahn who became a star witness. so gathering evidence and this continues, an important accountability process that is going however slowly alongside the doj's criminal investigation

and prosecutions. and those started slowly, too as we've reported. but they may also be intensifying. that is why with a lot of stories you have to see how they develop. what was true last year may evolve into something different in the port rot of the story -- in the portrait of this story and some of these accusations are coming from trump's own insurrectionist foot soldiers as a defendant accused trump of authorizing the fact in a new court statement. that is from dustin thompson, his lawyer said any action that he took was because the defendant, quote, believed the lies. the defendant testified that he viewed all of hi actions on the 6th as following presidential orders adding, i felt obligated to do what trump demanded. i felt obligated to do that. now, let's keep it real. that defense has a kind of a logic.

i mean everyone does know that trump told the people to march on the capitol and trump told pence to help steal the election and lied about the voter fraud to try to stay in power and people around him have admitted think attempted a coup, so could they argue they took next logical step of storming it like they knew trump wanted, like people thought trump wanted, like trump seemed to demand and that is the logic part and i'm using that carefully because that might not have legal stamina. citis don't get to do crime because they think or feel that a politician requested it. the so-called following orders defense has a bad history even for people in government when it is linked to blatant violence or worse. then there is another court filing that is shedding light on how premeditated this was. the fbi has taken new evidence out of the phone of one of the proud boys leaders and it is a

discussion to occupy government buildings on the 6th and they write we want to storm the capitol. that is pretty specific and that is in advance. and that is where things are really heating up. if you're watching and going, okay, ari, i it sounds like you have a couple of things that are coming together about to tell me about. it is one thing for a random trespasser and it sounds bad but it may not be bulletproof evidence of a secret operational plan to have violence support a coup. let me tell you something. it is a whole other thing when the militia leaders start turning on each other and secret evidence comes out to show what may be again and we'll follow the evidence but the outlines of operational planning in advance. you've heard about following the money. well here the doj is following the blueprint. who wrote it. who shared it. and did it ultimately reach

trump aides or trump himself? and then the big times story, an aide to trunk's adviser roger stone who has also had legal troubles an been convicted of different crimes, but this individual caught on tape making plea to trump supporters to dissend on the capitol. and that was a full week before january 6. that is bad. that is pretty damning evidence. that is why congress also right now is literally debating through this committee whether to refer donald trump for potential criminal prosecution. a process where mr. trump is legally presumed innocent. but where in a referral the doj must, as a legal matter, treat him like any other person to determine if, if there is sufficient legal evidence to indict him, to seek his trial

and if convicted, and if warranted, to seek his incarceration. this is serious stuff. that is no small question. i want to bring in our experts. former prosecutor may a wylie, and from the leadership conference on civil and human rights an nick acerman, i put the question to you, nick. >> -- where we are with all of this. i think we're in a really serious position at this point. because we've got evidence now of both the proud boys and the oath keepers, we've got people who are cooperating in those trials, so we've got this whole business going on with doj and then we've got what is going on with the january 6 committee. which is very significant. which is uncovered all kinds of evidence. and what i think ought to happen here, is they ought to follow the model kind of in reverse, as to what we did in the watergate prosecution. where we put together all of the

evidence on nixon and sent it to congress so that congress could decide what direction they would go with impeachment. here, i think with the january 6 committee, what they ought to do is put together all of the evidence they have on trump. they don't have to make a recommendation. but they ought to put that evidence together in a chronological order, just like we did with nixon, and give that to the department of justice. that is how i think this ought to work. because much of this investigation at least into the trump people and the people at the top has come from the january 6 committee. >> and nick, your view is that that should be a criminal referral or just a book report? >> i don't think it has to necessarily be a criminal referral. when we referred our evidence to the congress on richard nixon, we didn't say, it is a referral. it is simply an outline of the evidence showing richard nixon's involvement in the watergate

cover-up. again, here i think what the committee has to do is put together the evidence that they have gathered and put it together with the testimony, put it together with the documents, and refer that to the department of justice so they could make up their mind as to whether and want to present to a federal grand jury. that is how it ought to be done. that way they get away from the whole political problem of having to recommend and put the onus on -- >> respectfully, counselor, i don't know in 2022 you'll ever get away the from accusation of political problems. i don't know that legally, i i'm going to say this the most respectful way i can, you sound like bob mueller which is both a complement and a ah, and in that i we're saying gosh if we're careful, we can't be accused of whatever. it is like, look at how people talk and look at politics in the world now. having said that, i'll let nick respond but i want to bring maya

in on the tapes. are there tapes? yeah. we're getting more and more of this. here is with some of that, roger stone aide's tape. >> he is going to do something and it is going to be to where people are actually going to be arrested. he very may well call it an insurrection, but i see a limited form of martial law and i don't see any other way around it. biden will never be in that white house. that is my promise to each and every one of you. >> may a? >> well joe biden is in the white house. so, that is the good news is that it didn't work. what is more dangerous here is roger stone and you said it earlier, ari, alluded to it, roger stone has always been the linchpin in the apparent criming of donald trump. right. this was in ukraine, remember,

it was roger stone with some of the exchanges about the ukraine and zelenskyy and getting them involved in going after hunter biden in order to help the president -- former president trump win. and we're hearing the same thing. we saw roger stone also with white supremacists frankly and extremists as his bodyguards taking photos with them. the same folks that are getting prosecuted and he is actually the one who is active in organizing a help to organize both in the war room and the day of january 6. so i think the question becomes to what extent is there more direct communication between them and say roger stone who is also having direct conversations with donald trump. because i think what prosecutors are going to have to do if they want to charge the president directly, at least if we're talking about the insurrection,

sedition as opposed to interfering with congress, right. two different criminal charges that donald trump could face. then they are going to need to find evidence that we have not yet heard that directly tie conversations between the president and his henchmen with the folks that have been prosecuted now. >> nick? >> yeah, i totally agree with maya. it is critical and roger stone is a central figure. he was basically involved in the same kind of work back in the bush versus gore campaign where he was organizing the riot to keep the vote being counted in miami-dade. this is right up roger stone's alley. he was there acting as a surrogate for donald trump, reporting back to donald trump i'm sure, which is why we don't see any phone calls during that seven-hour period during the riot. roger stone was very careful to

keep himself out of the mix by leaving town before the riots started. but he is been in the center of everything. most notably with respect to the russian interference in the 2016 election. he was the only person in america that was corresponding and talking directly to guessiver 2.0 who was the russian operative in charge of all of the documents that were stolen from the democratic national committee. and he was the only person in america that was communicating with wikileaks. and relaying this information to donald trump. and he's also the person that was convicted of covering up for donald trump as the judge famously said in his case. so i think maya is right. so if you follow the trail here, from donald trump down to these other people, or up to donald trump from these other people most notably roger stone, i think that is where you really

are going to find the connection. now whether you can prove that beyond a reasonable doubt and whether they could come up with the proof, that is the big question. maya is right. we haven't seen that evidence that connected donald trump directly to the violence. you know, he's destroyed some of it with respect to the phone calls. some people i'm sure are not talking. you've got peter navarro who set up this whacko defense, where basically they were trying to follow the constitution and the statute and they didn't really like the violence because it was contrary to their entire plan. which is really nothing more than an alibi in a defense that he's setting up for donald trump and others that were around him that were -- >> and they're trying to sort of hand it off to different pieces in their mind. i'm out of time, but maya, i think i saw your pet cat. does she have anything to add? >> she thinks donald trump is guilty. >> okay.

and, look, as i mentioned, well let's see her again. what is her name? >> this is bafta. >> there we go. the zoom era. we love it. i'll tell you. as i mentioned earlier, wherever the case goes, people are legally presumed innocent. i mentioned that with great care. but your cat can have her own view of things and i would trust that you as the whisperer would know it better than anybody else. a little dash of something different here amidst of the rest of it. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> thank you. absolutely. we have another piece of good news for so many in new york. that gunman caught, apprehended as jaw-dropping new details about how the police got on the case. joyce vance is here. and big news on american humvees and helicopters headed to ukraine. we have the pentagon spokesperson who knows exactly what president biden is trying to do over there. john kirby joins me live tonight. and barack obama weighs in to

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that new york city subway shoot ser now in custody. it was 30 hours at large but frank james was arrested in the center of lower manhattan. that is a very busy area. he's facing intent to cause death or bodily injury on a mass transit system, facing up to 20 years and shooting ten in a terrifying attack yesterday morning that could have killed although no one was killed.

they think he called the crime-stoppers tip line on himself, this is frank and you guys are looking for me. my phone is about to die. the tip led to his arrest. james questioned today at the 9th precinct and then walked out of the manhattan precinct. he will be officially charged in a federal court tomorrow in brooklyn. >> we got him. we got him. >> frank robert james was stopped on the street and arrested by members of the new york city police department. officers in response to a crime-stoppers tip stopped mr. james. he was taken into custody without incident. we were able to shrink his world quickly. there was nowhere left for him to run. >> the police speaking about the way they were able to do a lot of surveillance and footwork and they felt that he had nowhere to go. you heard there. detectives say there is a lot of evidence that connected him to the crime, including the gun and

ammunition traced back to james and he bought that gun 10 years ago in ohio and there is surveillance of james entering a subway station, that is moments before opening fire. police say he fled the scene, got on a train across the platform and then departed at another stop in brooklyn. at rest comes after very disturbing youtube videos of the suspect showing long rants about death and a desire to kill, a quote race war and talk of targeting the mayor you just saw announcing his apprehension, the new mayor of new york city, eric adams. law enforcement say the investigation is ongoing. they don't know an exact motive. they're asking people who might know anything to still contact the police. because they have him. but they want to gather as much information as possible about what was motivating him and what else they might learn about keeping the streets safe. i'm joined now by former u.s. attorney joyce vance. among other work, she assisted

in the research for eric rudolph back in 1998. your view of the police work here that went down in such a big city? >> you know, it could be difficult to find someone in a place like new york city. but law enforcement folks, and this is state and federal folks working together, did a great job here. you're immediate concern in the aftermath of an incident like this is making sure the public is safe. sow want to identify the people who are involved in committing the crime and take them into custody as safely as possible and make sure that any threat they may have left behind has been dealt with. so that you could reassure citizens that they are safe in the city that they live in. >> i want to play a little bit of some of the reporting that we've seen, new york is a place that is sometimes perceived from afar as perhaps more dangerous, or kind of unexpected like anything could happen and then i think people feel if they spend

time there and yet this was a harrowing incident to be sure. i want to play just a little bit of chris jansing's report on how people are feeling. >> i eat upstairs on -- and i always felt that they're working for the protection for the customers and you could work and something happens, they would help you but now i'm working and that bothers me. >> that is scary to be on the subway right now. obviously i don't really know what the answer is. but something has to be done. i don't know if it is the police presence or if we're just focused on the wrong sort of things. >> your reaction and any context you want to share as a prosecutor. you've worked hand in glove with federal agents and fbi and others an you deal with any crimes that occur and do things to aid in prevention and public safety. that is the whole point and think everyone could identify with that the sheer terror here.

the subway and you have kids and people on there, how people get around. what context do you see here in folks like we just heard who are reacting to this or feeling really scared and shook up. >> well, we'll see their reactions reflected in the charges that will be filed in federal court. these -- this is a relatively rarely used charge, ari, that involved a terroristic act or a violence act perm traited against mass transportation and the testimony of the people on the subway car, people who were impacted by this incident will help to establish that is precisely the sort of serious treatment that this incident deserved. i'm glad to see it being dealt with as a federal crime not as a state crime. although there are likely going to be charged in both different venues. one of the problems that law enforcement has early on in a setting like this, is that you want to make at rest, you want to go ahead and find someone and bring them into custody. simultaneously, you need to

preserve the admissibility of the evidence that you're going after. so when you're identifying for instance, your perpetrator, you have to be careful that you don't violate their rights and that could involve some technical things like making sure you're showing witnesses multiple photos and not just saying is this the guy. and so you have to go fast but you have to do it right at the same time because ultimately you want to make the community safe and you want to hold the people responsible accountable. >> yeah. and then there is the video part of this. people in big cities are quite with all of the video cameras indeed, there is plenty of valid concerns about what sometimes seems like excessive videos between private and corporate use. which might not be for our safety, but just for other reasons and we have this whole idea of a surveillance. and then you see where i'm going with this, the time where a lot of people would want it in a public zone that doesn't get into privacy issues as much, i'm reading new york officials have been warning about the security

camera problem years before this. apparent inspections showed warning that they were at risk of malfunction and the mta failed for timely repaired on thousands of the cameras. this is the easy question, joyce, but it is important for people to understand it and in whatever cities they are, that is kind of the dry, ordinary maybe not in the headlines stuff that apparently would have mattered a lot, what is your view of that, the new mayor might want to have to look into that as well if this is been something that they were on notice about. >> well, i'll stay out of the surveillance state question for now. it is complicated and probably a discussion for another day. but if f you're a law enforcement agency that decides to use this sort of techniques to enhance public safety, then certainly you've got an obligation to maintain them. but let me take the side of law enforcement here and just say our budgets, our federal and

state budgets, they are moral documents, they tell us where our values live. and if we do not choose to fund this sort of equipment, you know, it could be everything from cameras that police officers wear on their bodies, to this sort of surveillance when we make decisions about what gets funded and what doesn't, then ultimately we see downstream implications. we don't know whether this was some flaw in the police department itself. and it's upkeep on equipment or whether the blame lies someplace else but that is something that the new york city new mayor will have to confront in the next few days i suspect. >> yeah. well put and i appreciate the other debate is not part of this breaking news per se. but we have you on a lot for good reason. so maybe we'll get into that another day. thanks for joining us. >> thanks, ari. >> appreciate it. later tonight, we turn to obama's new advice to democrats but next we go inside of the biden administration. admiral kirby joins me from the pentagon in just 60 seconds.

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turning to the on going russian invasion of ukraine, president biden spoke with president zelenskyy ahead of a new wave of u.s. military support, the united states said it is a matter of massive help because there will be $800 million worth of military hardware going to ukraine, that included new armored humvees and helicopters and drones, meanwhile there is a european report detailing new evidence of russian war crimes citing the bombing of the maternity hospital in mariupol and a feeder that was clarkly marked for civilians, not a military target and documentation of the disturbing allegations of rape and torture committed by russian soldiers. you may recall when president biden suggested russia as actions were war crimes and now he said it could be genocide.

>> i called it genocide because it has become clearer and clearer that putin is trying to wipe out the idea of being ukrainian. horrible thing that the russians have done in ukraine and we're only going to learn more and more about the devastation and we'll let the lawyers decide in internationally whether or not it qualified but it sure seems that way to me. >> we turn now to a veteran of several administrations, press secretary john kirby. thanks for joining me. >> yes, sir. glad to be with you. >> first, what could you tell us about this u.s. military support going to ukraine? >> well, it is another $800 million that the president has now authorized. this on top of a previous $800 million that he did just in the middle of march. and that material is -- should be finishing getting to ukraine in next couple of days. so this is a new $800. it has new capabilities and some

not so new capabilities. things we know they've been using effectively like javelins but they are designed to help them with the fight they are in now and will be in the donbas, in that eastern part of the ukraine where they are redoubling efforts so how witzers and 40,000 artillery and radar and mobile air defense radar systems, as well as more uav's and even some unmanned surface vessels that will help them with coastal defense in the black sea and the sea of azav. so we're folking this package much more closely on the fight today given what the russians have done in terms of reprioritizing their efforts in the east. >> you mentioned the donbas and the east and the reporting and the public references to u.s. intelligence about that being the focus. does the pentagon now view that as putin's goal for an off-ramp, to take part of the country and stop? >> it is very unclear right now. we don't know whether it is

exactly that. try to get the donbas and get that land bridge to crimea and then stop and declare victory. or is it to get more negotiating leverage at the table. they haven't negotiated in good faith. so that is not clear. or is it to grab that kind of territory and then to pause and then try to assault more in the rest of ukraine and make another move on kyiv. it is not clear. what is clear is we want the ukrainians to defend every of their territory and they already have. the new capabilities that the president authorized will help them in that fight in the east. >> at the intersection of your job at the pentagon and diplomacy, which people may recall you have experience with as well, we see reported about finland and sweden considering joining nato. that could be a setback for russia. instead of crushing nationalism, putin has solidified instead of dividing nato and he has unified

it. is this a positive way to push putin back or as a nato issue that you don't necessarily want on the front burner right now? >> i think, look, the one thing that mr. putin didn't want, he's getting. he's getting a strong united resolve nato right on his western flank. and that is what he said he didn't want. he's creating this resolution among nato allies to stand up for one another. we have added 20,000 more american troops to the european continent to bolster the nato eastern flank and now sweden and finland are discussing the possibility of joining nato. i could tell you that what we want, for the alliance and what we want for our capabilities inside of the alliances is to make sure that mr. putin knows as president biden has said, we'll defend every inch of nato territory and we're making good on that promise. as i said, 20,000 more troops and we now have a carrier strike

group in the mediterranean. we haven't one in in the mediterranean at least temporarily for a long, long time. so again we're taking the commitments very seriously. >> and admiral, we showed the new comments from the president about a genocide, accused putin of genocide and labelled him a war criminal. but as you know, there is no way to hold a foreign official or leader on trial for those war crimes or genocides without an international criminal court. there is no other venue that currently exists. under this administration and previous ones, the u.s. is not part of that. why does the pentagon continue to oppose the united states joining the international criminal court which would advance potentially that kind of trial? >> i think i would just speak to the concerns that we've had in the past about the court and the possibility of possible prosecutions of american troops in war and in iraq and

afghanistan and that is been a long-standing concern of the united states department of defense. but look, in term of ukraine, we in dod and in the administration are doing what we can to document and collect the evidence of these war crimes. we've said very clearly and in just the last couple of weeks that russian forces are in fact committing war crimes. you don't have to look any further than your network to see the evidence and the proof of that. and we're going to help collect that evidence and make sure it is available to investigators as we go forward. >> but to be clear, i want to make sure we understand, when the president said war criminal, that has not changed the pentagon's position that war criminal or not, there won't be u.s. support for the icc to told that trial, to deal with the evidence you gist referenced? ? >> well i won't speak for the entire u.s. government but here in the pentagon, we've been clear about our concerns about the icc and some of their activities and the potential ramifications for american service men and women who are serving in iraq and afghanistan. i think we've been very clear about that.

but again, there are clear war crimes going on in ukraine. we're going to help contribute to the administration's effort to document that, to collect that evidence. so that it can be used by appropriate international tribunals going forward. >> understood. i know those are complex international issues. we did want to get you on the record on all of the items and we understand how busy of a time it is for you and your colleagues so i appreciate you joining us, admiral john kirby. >> yes, sir. glad to be with you. >> we're going to fit in a break. when we come back, why barack obama is telling democrats he has advice, tout the wins and the guy who gives him advice, david plouffe, the architect of obama's white house wins is here on all of it, next. ℠ card, dan earns cash back that automatically adjusts to where his spending is trending. just ask stepping outside his comfort zone dan... okay, i don't- i don't know where the hole for this is. ...or fourth time streaming that period drama dan... you just made me miss her best line, so now i'm going to have to start it again ...even insisted he didn't need directions dan. okay, i'm not lost. i'm exploring.

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there is a lot going on, but it is always a big deal when a former president dip news politics, indeed president's bush and obama largely avoid that. trump does tis own thing but every so often barack obama will just talk politics and that is what did he with our colleague nbc's al roker in this new interview that touched on the upcoming midterm elections. >> what do you think is going to happen in this midterm election? >> well it is too early to say. i think the biden administration has overcome some extraordinary circumstances. covid, the economy, and now most recently ukraine and they have handled the policy right. but look, understandably, people feel exhausted by covid. that is going to dampen the mood of a country. inflation is a real issue. a lot of it is having to do with these -- with covid and supply

chains and now putin's gas tax essentially by virtue of his invasion of ukraine. but there is a good story to tell. the democrats have to gooit there and tell the story, but ultimately the voters decide on this thing. >> and now we turn to former obama campaign manager david plouffe, called the architect of obama's two white house wins. welcome back, sir. >> good to see you, ari. >> it is borderline silly to ask you if he's right. but i will. is he right? do you share that view. he does sound in all realness a little concerned. >> well i think you have to -- listen, in any competitive enterprise, you have to be honest about where you are. your strengths and weaknesses and there is no doubt that the political climate right now is challenging. a lost country is exhausted. i do think the biden administration has done, we should all be very grateful that

they're in place but the politics are challenging because even though the unemployment rate is low, over 60% of americans live paycheck to paycheck and it is not going as far so that will cause political head winds. people don't vote on stat. barack obama won re-election with unemployment almost at 8%. for two reasons. the trend was positive and that is important and disqualified at least in the minds of enough voters mitt romney was an unacceptable alternative. so that is where barack obama was right. >> i'm going to jump in -- >> yeah. >> i'm going to jump in to push back because you make an interesting comparison. but wasn't some of your success in that period that you didn't own the origin event that the crash was during the campaign, you came in to fix it and then said, hey, look, we're fixing it. with regard to -- it is complicated. but with regard to inflation and the macro economic problems, they have began under biden and

isn't there the risk that more voters fairly or not hit him in a way that is different than you say. >> i don't think so. but first of all, i saw in our research there 2012, barack obama inherited a financial crisis. but they pit it squarely on him to fix it. sow don't really get to blame the origin. i would say this. covid, you know, predated the biden administration. the economic collapse. and so, no, i think they could tell a powerful story, democrats of the fire fighting that they've done. but then you have to say, but let's compare the alternative. if the republicans get control, you think they're going to make lives better for you and your family. so i think barack obama is right. first put into context what you've done and how it is improved things in america but this is a competitive exercise. particularly when you have challenging head winds. you have to turn this election into a choice. or you're going to not like the outcome very much. >> yeah. and there is then mitch mcconnell eyeing the same

upcoming midterms. take a look. >> it is a perfect storm of problems for the democrats because it is an entirely democratic government. which leads to you ask the question, how you could screw this up. it is actually possible. you can't nominate somebody who is just sort of unacceptable to a broader group of people and win. we that had experience in 2010 and 2012. >> it is mitch mcconnell, so as you know he has a kind of way of speaking. it is dry and has deniability, but do you think he's talking about the qanon and sarah palin and a generic r would do better than those we counted up 26 states. >> no question. he has seen that nightmare of a movie twice before. where republicans could have

gotten control with a slim margin. so you ask what could change between now and when people start voting in october in many states. one is the macro environment gets better. inflation begins to recede, covid is in the rear view mirror. secondly, the republicans nominate a bunch of people that aren't acceptable. third is an event, if the supreme court does outlaw abortion in this country, i don't even think we could begin to understand the politics that, but i think it creates something quite powerful in the country politically. so there is big things that could happen here. but yes, he's absolutely right. and the senate is going to be close. so if they end up nominating a couple of people, that are unacceptable compared to traditional republicans, it could cost them the senate. so he's seen that. 2010, 2012, which is apologists, people out of the nut case farm and their at risk of having a bunch of those people nominated again this year. >> so i'm out of time. but the witch ad not a good yeah. >> never a good idea to compare

yourself to a witch in american politics, or any politics. >> yeah. it is a deep cut. but memorable. david plouffe. good to see. when we come back, why donald trump top aide is in the soup for actual voter fraud problems and facing accountability.

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fraud. >> do you realize how inaccurate the voter rules are with people just moving around? when you look at north carolina and ballot harvesting like happen there and it was fraudulent. >> we got states that are actually doing things that you would qualify as a scam. >> hey, mark, why do you know so much about it? you may be telling on yourself? now, that's his view or his projection when you go on a broader level there has not been documented evidence of wide spread voter fraud in this past or other recent elections. it's been generally isolate the and not anything like the amount that could tip a race. the north carolina board of elections did find records meadows lived and voted in virginia in '21. he's trying to potentially vote in more places than he can. officials are also investigating reports he register in 2020 using address of a residence he did not live in, ever and did

not own which is a stretch. you can sometimes use a part time domicile but you can't put down an address you don't have a link to. it's a lot of heat on meadows. the doj is considering whether to criminally indict him for that so there is a lot of signs of accountability for mark meadows tonight on more than one topic. when we come back, i have one political story for you. the intersection of law and politics. we'll explain, next. d politics we'll explain, next. smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like: try hypnosis... or... quit cold turkey. kidding me?! instead, start small. with nicorette. which can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette ♪ it's the most wonderful time of the year, ♪ claritin provides non-drowsy symptom relief from over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens, day after day. feel the clarity - and make today the most wonderful time of the year.

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one of the rising stars in democratic politics in one of

the biggest bluest states in america is bringing down the number two democrat in new york state. former lieutenant governor brian benjamin resigning just hours after federal prosecutors charged him with bribery, fraud and falsification of records while serving as a state senator. the accusations are he funneled illegal donations, covered up the activity and tried to orchestrate schemes to have people move the money around and change for favors. he was a rising star because he was just pulled up as the number two after all the changes with cuomo replaced by hochul. the democratic party in the state had its share of problems. one more thing we're excited about is involving clive davis who just marked his 90th birthday. i interviewed him on "the beat." he'll join me in new york next thursday. i invite you to come in and go

of line to get tickets. 92 y.org/events/clive davis. i wanted to tell everyone nearby you can join us and a way to watch it streaming online ex if you don't remember the link on the beat twitter account, we'll leave that link pinned up there for a few days if you want to join me and clive. happy birthday to him, as well. "the reidout" with joy reid starts right now. good evening, everyone. we got a lot to get to including the arrest of frank james. the 30-hour manhunt after james himself called the police tip line. the motive is unclear but we're learning about videos james posted online ranting about race and violence. we'll have more coming up.